Disorder

April 24th marks Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day, but the tragic Ottoman massacres of Armenians of over a century ago have been largely forgotten in mainstream Western consciousness. Why?    In the first of a two-part series, Jason is joined by Dr Armen Sarkissian, a world-renowned theoretical physicist, diplomat, and businessman. He was Armenia?s president from 2018 to 2022 and also its prime minister from 1996 to 1997. In their interview, they discuss the century old genocide, the novel round of ethnic cleansing that happened seven short months ago in Nagorno-Karabakh, how in the 1990s Armenia could have forged a peace deal from a position of strength with Azerbaijan but missed the opportunity, and why the legacy and implications of the Armenian genocide have been largely forgotten but are essential to maintaining any form of global order.     Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  Get Dr Armen Sarkissian?s book The Small States Club: How Small Smart Powers Can Save the World - https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/the-small-states-club/     For the Encyclopedia Brittanica Definition of the Armenian Genocide: https://www.britannica.com/event/Armenian-Genocide/Genocide     Armenia Under Siege: https://www.newsweek.com/armenia-under-siege-opinion-1889040     On Calouste Gulbenkian as Mr 5%, and the wealthiest man in the world in his day: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jan/03/mr-five-per-cent-calouste-gulbenian-worlds-richest-man      Controversial land sale puts Jerusalem Armenians on edge: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65876162   If you are moved to help the plight of the refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh we recommend you donate to 'The Tumo Foundation 501(c)3' for Artsakh Teens here: https://armenia.tumo.org/t4at/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the early morning hours of 19 April, American officials told major news outlets that an Israeli missile had struck central Iran near its nuclear sites. No one was harmed. Officially, the Israelis are not claiming to have attacked; and Iran is not claiming to have been attacked. It is distinctly possible that this pinprick strike combined with denials on all sides will satisfy both parties and avert further retaliation. Conversely, it is also distinctly possible that it will lead to further cycles of revenge and escalation.   To Order this Disorder, Jason is joined by our returning champion Arthur Snell and our great Scottish hopeful, Jane Kinninmont -- Policy & Impact Director at the European Leadership Network (an institution specializing in preventing nuclear war). The trio discuss: 1) why did Israel choose to retaliate, even though Biden counselled them to ?Bank the Win?; 2) if this event even counts as retribution for the Iranian strikes of 14 April or could be classified as a non-strike as it is below the threshold of certain previous Israeli actions inside Iran; and 3) how Iran?s and Israel?s Sunni Arab neighbors are responding.   Mulling over this unique historical moment, the trio use the Ordering the Disorder segment to propose opportunities for sage diplomacy to prevail and de-escalate tensions. Of course, the mere existence of these win-win, mutually beneficial, off-ramps from further conflict, does not mean that the Iranians or Israelis will seizes these opportunities.   Twitter: @DisorderShow   Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/   Producer: James Hodgson Exec Producer: Neil Fearn   Show Notes Links   For a quick overview of April 19th?s events: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2024/04/israel-carries-out-strikes-isfahan-iran-reports?mc_cid=a8bfe16bdf&mc_eid=b844138f36     For Iranian narratives of the confrontation with Israel: https://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/commentary/out-of-the-shadow-war-iranian-narratives-of-the-confrontation-with-israel/   For Arthur Snell?s Substack, ?Not All Doom?: https://arthursnell.substack.com/   And for his podcast ?Behind the Lines?: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/behind-the-lines-with-arthur-snell/id1704344656   Join ELN?s roundup of the Persian language news: https://europeanleadershipnetwork.us5.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=f9c4fc8e446f80bb4d50ed06f&id=ca7882ea45 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Taiwan is not only the epicentre of the world?s semi-conductor industry and a vibrant democracy. It is arguably the most important square on the chessboard of East Asian geopolitics. And the Taiwanese have watched very carefully how China has absorbed Hong Kong.  The ?one country, two systems? mantra was a total failure.    China is not planning a peaceful union with Taiwan. China is building its military at a rate not seen since World War II. The Chinese explain their military buildup by claiming a desire to reunify with (i.e. invade) Taiwan by 2027. Is this just posturing by China or is a great power battle over the island ? i.e. between the US and China ? actually approaching?    To examine the state of play in China/Taiwan relations, Alex Hall Hall is joined by former Danish diplomat, Jonas Parello-Plesner. In his recent book ? ?The Battle for Taiwan? ? Jonas explores what China is doing to shape the regional balance of power. In the discussion, Alex and Jonas discuss: the surrounding countries? (Japan/South Korea/Philippines) role in deterring China, how seriously we should take Xi?s stated ambition of ?assimilating? Taiwan into China, and how should Taiwan and its friends in the West protect and prepare for such a likelihood.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  Get Jonas Parello-Plesner?s book ?The Battle for Taiwan? at https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Taiwan-Jonas-Parello-Plesner/dp/B0CZRYS4RZ/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=     For More on Taiwan?s recent election: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/13/asia/taiwan-presidential-election-results-intl-hnk/index.html     Read Alex?s most recent Bylines Times article  https://bylinetimes.com/2024/04/09/the-dilemma-facing-civil-servants-over-the-uks-arms-sales-to-israel/   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the early morning hours of April 14th Iranian drones and missiles were launched towards Israel. The launch was framed as retaliation for an Israeli attack on the Iranian diplomatic compound in Damascus on April 1st.      Nearly 99% of the projectiles were intercepted. Although little physical or human damage was sustained, regional relations have been fundamentally recast: Sunni Arab states like Jordan and possibly Saudi Arabia allowed the US, UK, and Israel to use their territory and intel assets to counter the threat. Israeli PM Netanyahu initially vowed a retaliatory strike, but Biden, Sunak and others are trying to dissuade him.    To discuss the late breaking developments and relitigate their previous predictions, Jason is joined from Dubai by Disorder?s own Roving Correspondent, David Patrikarakos. The duo set the context of the strikes within the long durée context of decades of proxy conflict between Israel and the Islamic Republic. They investigate how these events might spiral out of control to cause an apocalyptic War of Gog and Magog or how they could reconfigure regional alliances and allow for renewed Qatari/American/Egyptian mediation to find an off-ramp from the current conflict.  They also investigate the current famine in Gaza and the lack of Israeli policy for long term governance solutions for the territory.     Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For an overview of the Iranian strikes and Israeli response: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/13/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news    The Role of Biden: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-called-off-retaliatory-strike-on-iran-after-call-with-biden-new-york-times/     Read David?s sage prediction in Unherd, ?Iran is winning the Gaza war Tehran's violent strategy could soon escalate?: https://unherd.com/2024/04/iran-is-winning-the-gaza-war/    And Jason?s plea to blame Bibi and not the Jews:  https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/blame-netanyahu-for-gaza-not-the-jews/     Our Oct 12th episode: The 2023 Israeli-Hamas war: A Symptom of our era of Disorder?: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/e48504038444024ddfb4d273932b9eec   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A decisively new kind of maritime terrorism has now emerged. Last weekend, two more British-linked ships were attacked in the Red Sea by Houthi pirates. This comes after the sinking of the Rubymar on March 2nd, which released 21,000 metric tons of ammonium, constituting a major ecological disaster.     Jason is joined by Laura Cretney: a Yemen expert and founder of Pink Jinn, an online marketplace focused on supporting small businesses and communities affected by conflict in the MENA region.  The pair provide a primer on how we got to here: Who are the Houthis and how did this ?rag tag militia? from the mountains end up with so much leverage over the global economy?     They also unpick the implications of the Houthis: Are the attacks on global shipping actually changing the course of the conflict in Gaza? And what does the ongoing conflict in the Red Sea and the competing social media narratives emerging around it, tell us about the regional and global order (or lack thereof)?    Lastly, the pair try to Order the Disorder by debating the role Diaspora communities in the US and UK can play in providing expertise and human networks to help improve Western policymaking towards the ongoing conflicts in Yemen, Gaza, and throughout the MENA region.    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Hear our previous episode on Yemen here   Background on the Dawning of a new age of eco-terrorism here   To find out about the recent attacks on British shipping visit here   Read about the impact on Israel here   And the impact on the global economy here   And why designating the Houthis as terrorist may backfire can be read here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Beneath the Caribbean?s idyllic seafronts and sandy beaches lies a darker truth. Illicit money flows, corruption, and organised crime leave these small states hollowed out and open to state capture. In fact, the failure of Caribbean states to provide services to their populations and to generate income has led some of them to sell their sovereignty to their highest bidder.    In this episode, Jason Pack is joined by Arthur Snell, host of the Behind the Lines podcast and former British High Commissioner to Trinidad and Tobago to discuss the multiplicity of interconnected roles Caribbean nations play within the Global Enduring Disorder. The pair discuss: Haiti?s recent gang uprising, the high homicide rates throughout the Caribbean, the historical role of the Caribbean as the first truly globalized region in human history, why former British colonies like the British Virgin Islands are increasingly turning to money laundering and drug trafficking, and how the legacy of the sugar trade has left societal scars in the region that are still felt to this day.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack here   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  Read the report, ?Homicide and Organised Crime in Latin America and the Caribbean here   Read more about Haiti here  Discover more about Andrew Fahie?s drug case here   Read ?The Crime Conundrum in the Caribbean? here   Buy Arthur's, How Britain Broke the World here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode, Alex and Jason catch up after a long absence and chew the fat. They discuss the tradeoffs of life in the US vs UK delving into the Convenience vs Inspiration dichotomy. They  try to decide who moved to the more chaotic place and where life is more livable and unpack thorny philosophical problems like have Britain?s public services become enshittified just as American tech platforms have?   Plus, they discuss the Disorder of getting car insurance in the UK, the Conservative?s London Mayoral election campaign, and what a Trump election could mean for America?s foreign policy.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For the origins of Enshittification visit here   Enshittification as word of the year here     Read more of Alex?s writing at Byline Times     And Jason?s at his website   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

India is arguably the world?s only rising great power. As the world?s largest democracy and soon to be third largest economy it is the globe?s most serious aspirant for becoming the 6th permanent member of the UN Security Council. Despite this economic and foreign policy heft, since independence in 1947, India has stridently resisted being aligned with any one particular geopolitical ?camp?.  It has always wanted to retain its ?strategic autonomy? and to avoid being treated as a junior partner to any major superpower.  Recently, India has hedged between Ukraine and Russia, btw the BRICS and America, and btw Israel and the Arab World. As a result, India has successfully maintained cordial ties with many of the world?s top powers, but has it done so as an Orderer or as a Disorderer?     To discuss, Alex Hall Hall is joined by Indrani Bagchi ? one of India?s most respected foreign policy journalists, a former Associate Editor for the Times of India, and currently Chief Executive Officer of the Ananta Centre. The duo discuss India?s approach to Russia, China, the UK, and the Israel-Gaza conflict. At the interview?s conclusion, while trying to Order the Disorder, an incensed Jason butts in with his strong personal hunch that India has much latent ordering potential but that Modi has deliberately squandered it in pursuit of his divisive and disordering neopopulist policies.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Find out more about India?s wealth income inequality from TIME here   Read about Kejriwal?s arrest here   For more on India?s election here  Learn about how Modi?s Neo-Populist consolidation here   More on the arrest of opposition politicians here   And about the killing of a Sikh activist in Canada here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can we ever truly achieve Order in the international system? Or is life itself just a deterministic jumble of uncontrollable events? Do humans crave order so much that they perceive it even when it is absent ? leading to conspiracy theories? And should policymakers avoid optimization and prediction and embrace experimentation, resilience, and slack to fix the problems of our era of Global Enduring Disorder?    This week we celebrate the six-month anniversary of Disorder, by talking with a guest from our very first episode, the man who inspired this podcast, Brian Klaas. Brian?s page-turning new book ?Fluke: Chance, Chaos, and Why Everything We Do Matters?, is not only a dynamic read, it has much to say about whether our lives, our politics, and our relationships can ever be truly ordered. In the conversation, Brian and Jason agree disagreeably about the following issues: do most people believe that good things happen to good people, that one?s lot in life is somehow earned, and that ?things happen for a reason?? Can some disorder be good in our personal lives? Is Order a spiritual rather than a rational virtue?     Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Pick up Fluke by visiting - https://brianpklaas.com/fluke     For more of Brian?s writing visit - https://www.forkingpaths.co/      Listen to a great audio overview of the book here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every year, Freedom House releases an annual ?global democracy health check?. According to it, the world is getting sicker. In this year?s ?Freedom in the World? report -- which reviews the state of democracy, civil, and political rights in every country -- political and civil liberties have got worse in 52 countries, while in only 21 countries have they improved.     What dynamics lie behind this trend? And what does it signify for the future?     To find out, Alex is joined by the President of Freedom House, Mike Abramowitz. Prior to running Freedom House, Mike was a Senior Executive at the Holocaust Museum, and before that, he worked for 24 years at the Washington Post, as national editor, and then White House correspondent. He also has the distinction of being one of only a handful of ?named? American citizens singled out for special sanctions by the Chinese Government, imposed on him in 2020 as a response to his support for the Hong Kong Democracy movement. In the episode, Alex and Mike delve into the report in more detail, the threats facing elections around the world, the implications of the stifling of the free press, and what could be done to revive the recent decline in global freedom.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack here   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    To read Freedom House?s Freedom In The World Report here   For more on Mike Abramowitz visit Freedom House   His article in TIME, ?How Authoritarian Regimes Go After Journalists Beyond Their Borders? can be read here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this year of monumental elections, there is none which looms larger than the grandaddy of them all: the 2024 US Presidential Elections. With the US Primary season all but over, the match up appears set between the ?disorderer-in-chief? Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But in the wake of Super Tuesday is that match up really set? Or might an open convention scenerio emerge leading to last minute switch up? And what are the global implications for a long and protracted race between two candidates with vastly different approaches to America?s place in the world and fostering global order? And what are the implications of two wildly unpopular candidates running for President with each seeking to present themselves as the least bad option?    To answer these questions and more, Alex Hall Hall is joined by Rick Davis. Rick was a senior political consultant on multiple presidential campaigns, including for George H W Bush and for Bob Dole. He also served as Senator John McCain?s national campaign manager in 2000 and 2008. He is currently a partner at Stone Court Capital, a private equity investor located in New York City. Alex and he discuss his time managing John McCain?s campaign, how Trump has conducted a hostile takeover of the Republican Party, and how we can understand the demographic shifts that have remade the face of the Republican party over the last two decades.    As they Order the Disorder, Alex and Jason discuss the prevalent double standards which are used when analyzing Biden?s record on the economy, Gaza, and Ukraine, how Congress could proactively prevent some of the potentially disordering impacts of a future potential Trump presidency, and looking forward to 2028, how a whole new class of political leaders appears bound to emerge.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Rick?s bio here   For more on Rick Davis?s career head here Read more on Davis and Lobbying here   Further background on Super Tuesday and Nikki Haley?s Departure from the Republican Primary here On Super Tuesday and Dean Phillips Departure from the Democratic Primary here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to working together to face external challenges, no challenge could be greater than extraterrestrial life? and this seemingly abstract problem could be more pressing than you think. In 2023, Air Force Colonel David Grusch spoke before Congress to present his firsthand evidence of alien spacecraft remains and non-human ?biologics?. In his testimony, he claimed that parts of the United States Government and defense contractors were hiding these facts from disclosure to Congress. So, in response, the Senate unanimously passed what is known as the ?UAP Disclosure Act? -- legislation which would compel defense contractors and the CIA to disclose all information to Congress and then mandate a structured disclosure of parts of this sensitive information to the public. The parts of this act which grant Congress enforcement power are being held up by a handful of Congressmen in the House.    But do Colonel Grush?s claims hold any weight? And if they did, would global powers successfully co-ordinate on issues pertaining to extraterrestrial life? And why aren?t parts of the US Government sharing information with other parts of USG?    To answer those questions and more, Jason Pack is joined by Daniel Sheehan. Daniel is the head of the New Paradigm Institute. A Harvard educated civil rights lawyer who has worked on many high profile cases like Watergate, Daniel tells Jason about his discussions with Gorbachev about UAPs, why he believes information about UAPs is being withheld, and why he thinks releasing this ?information? to the world is the right thing to do.    Meanwhile, Alex and Jason discuss: why Daniel?s argument of a ?shadow government? feels unlikely, their own experience of times when governments don?t share information coherently between departments, and whether Colonel Grusch feels like a credible whistleblower.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    US Congress passes stripped-down measure to release UFO records: link   UAP disclosure bill revised; two key provisions stripped, read here   About the New Paradigm Institute: https://newparadigminstitute.org/     For more Sheehan?s advocacy head here   Read a reputable British science journalist?s take of Congressional UAP issues here   Listen to Sheehan on the Lede Podcast talking more about the details of the UAP disclosure Act here   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the days following Navalny?s murder, Western leaders have made all too predictable speeches and issued all too predictable condemnations. But as of yet, very little concrete action has been taken to respond to the murder of Russia?s most prominent opposition politician. The West talks the talk, but has yet to walk the walk. How should Biden, Sunak and Ursula Van Der Leyen hit Putin where it actually hurts and genuinely punish him for his actions?     In this episode of Disorder, Jason Pack sits down with successful investor, globally acclaimed author, and famous philanthropist/humanitarian advocate, Bill Browder. A close friend of Navalny, Browder talks of his emotions at hearing of his ally?s death, how ?demoralizing? the news is for ordinary people opposing Putin?s regime, and what the West can now do to turn their words of condemnation and outrage into concrete actions.    Bill recalls that when he first went to Russia in the 1990s, a chaotic and poorly-organized mafia gradually spread throughout the country. Then, it spread its tentacles throughout the world. And we in the West essentially let this happen. And now Navalny has died bearing further witness to the extent of corruption, indecency, and thuggery in Russia. We must not stand idly by. ?Browder?s interview concludes with a passionate plea to Western governments ? especially the United Kingdom?? to work together to confiscate Russian cash reserves and free other imprisoned opposition leaders.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Jason?s article in USAToday about Navalny's messianism, its historical antecedents, and what the West should do to honour his memory and punish Putin. Read here Read Bill Browder?s bio here   Read Browder?s ?Freezing Order? here   ?How Bill Browder Became Russia?s Most Wanted Man? by the New Yorker can be found here   From the Guardian, ?More deaths are coming?: fears over fate of other Russian political prisoners after Navalny?s death? can be read here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wars are raging in Ukraine and the Middle East. Russia?s most famous opposition politician (Alexei Navalany) has just been murdered. Meanwhile, the international institutions set up after World War 2 to uphold peace and security no longer seem fit for purpose. Into this space comes the annual Munich Security Forum. Its flagship event, which took place last weekend, is its gathering of hundreds of the world?s top security experts and decision makers in Munich each year, to debate ? and hopefully come up with solutions for - the world?s most pressing security concerns.     Last year, despite the ongoing war in Ukraine, the conference took place in relatively optimistic circumstances: the Ukrainians were putting up a plucky defence, while the euro-atlantic alliance seemed to have found new purpose. This year is a different story. Russia has just taken the city of Avdiivka, while international support for Ukraine is wavering. And on the very opening day of the conference, the shocking news broke that Russia?s most prominent opposition politician, Alexei Navalny, had died in prison.     So what was the mood like at this year?s conference, and how should the euro-atlantic community respond to these challenges? To answer those questions, Alex Hall Hall was joined by Nico Lange ? a senior fellow at the Munich Security Conference and a former Chief of Staff at the German Ministry of Defence. In this episode the pair discuss: what were the main takeaways from the conference, the need for European powers to step up their aid to Ukraine, and why expanding the EU and NATO is vital for international security.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Nico Lange?s article ?In a critical situation for Ukraine, it is down to the Europeans? here   And for an overview of many issues relating to Navalny?s death and Western and Russian politicians reactions to it here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In late January 2024, New Hampshire residents received a strange phone call. The voice of Joe Biden was telling them not to vote in the Democratic Primaries.  But it wasn?t actually the President on the line? It was a deep faked robot. This was part of an unlawful attempt to disrupt the New Hampshire Presidential Primary Election. That disinformation campaign was created by easily accessible technology. Over the next months, more sophisticated attempts are almost bound to emerge seeking to disrupt the November US Presidential Elections? so what can be done to prevent AI-empowered voter suppression and help protect democracy against these very real threats?    To find out, Alex Hall Hall speaks to Miles Taylor. Miles was the Chief of Staff in the Department of Homeland Security under the Trump Administration. It was later revealed that he was the author of the famous ?Anonymous? essay in the New York Times entitled, ?I am part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration?. He most recently wrote an NYT bestseller ?Blowback?. Taylor is now the co-founder of the US Futures Policy Studio in Washington; an organisation which is looking to help policymakers better understand deep fake technology. In his discussion with Alex, he talks about his reasons for leaving the Trump Administration; the unbridled vengeance he faced as a consequence of speaking out against a Neo-Populist; and his current work bringing attention to one of the most profound threats currently facing democracies: Artificial Intelligence.    To close the show, Jason and Alex ?Order the Disorder? by discussing the need for fast-moving regulation around AI, why a lengthening of ?power distance? in American society is an indication that our democratic institutions and culture aren?t work properly anymore, and why a public information campaign ridiculing AI deep fakes could help to prepare society for these disruptive technologies.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read the famous ?Anonymous? essay in the NYT here   Read why Miles unmasked himself here   Read Alex?s article ?Should I Stay or Should I Go? The Dilemma of a Conflicted Civil Servant? in the Texas National Security Review here   Get Blowback: A Warning to Save Democracy from the Next Trump here   Read ?Fake Biden robocall telling Democrats not to vote is likely an AI-generated deepfake? here   For a range of academic and conceptual work on the concept of ?Power Distance?, consult here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Alex turns 60, she and Jason  look back at how the world has changed since she first decided to enter the diplomatic service. Meanwhile, Jason explains how his ?lived experiences? across the Middle East have shaped the way he views American foreign policy. The Boomer vs Gen X dynamics are laid bared for all to see. Then the duo answer listener questions: namely, what UK/US support for Israel should look like, why some countries are less corrupt than others and what role Western powers should play in post-conflict zones. Finally, as they Order the Disorder, Alex and Jason talk about the need to be courageous in trying to bring interim governance to post-War Gaza, and the importance of maintaining moral clarity.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack here    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Much ink has been spilled about the legal definition of the crime of Genocide and if Israel has committed it in Gaza or if Hamas committed it on October 7th. In this pod, we are not examining those legal or moral issues. Adopting a non-legal, and non-humanitarian frame of mind, we are going to examine what are the underlying geopolitical, historical, and diplomatic reasons for South Africa bringing a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ)?     In this episode of Disorder, Jason Pack speaks to Sasha Polakow-Suransky -- deputy editor of Foreign Policy and author of ?The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa?. The duo turn the telescope around and look squarely at South Africa, rather than looking at Israel or the Palestinians. They discuss the global implications of the ICJ case for South Africa and how it fits in the country?s decades long whiplash romances first with Israel then with the Palestinians, how South Africans see their role in the world, and whether South Africa?s actions and media campaign will further intrench ideas in the Global South that America?s stance on Israel?s actions in Gaza is grounded in hypocrisy. Then in our Ordering the Disorder segment, we debate is South Africa proposing an alternative order to the American-led international system or merely an alternative disorder?    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack here   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read: ?What South Africa Really Won at the ICJ? by Sasha here   Read: ?The Year Geopolitical Competition Returned to Africa? by Sasha here     Listen to Today, Explained episode, ?Israel at the International Court of Justice? here     Read the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide here Get Sasha?s book The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In April 2022, undeterred by his previous two poisonings, Russian opposition politician, historian, and free speech advocate Vladimir Kara-Murza made the incredibly courageous decision to re-enter Russia ? despite his known opposition to Putin?s invasion of Ukraine two months earlier. What happened next was as tragic as it was predictable. A year later Vladimir was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Last Monday, he disappeared from the Siberian penal colony where he was being held, only much?later re-emerging in solitary confinement in a different prison.?  In this episode of Disorder, we speak to Evgenia Kara-Murza, a Russian human rights activist and Vladimir?s wife.  Evgenia shares about her upbringing in Russia?s Far East, how her husband was imprisoned while working to improve the country, and how what is happening within Russia ?hurts? her deeply. She also unpacks how Western leaders bear significant responsibility for the direction taken by the regime of Vladimir Putin ? to her mind choosing cowardice and to make money over the safeguarding of human rights. Evgenia finishes the interview talking about how already democratic countries need to stay alert and safeguard their rights and freedoms. To her, the full-scale invasion of Ukraine has shown: democracy is under threat ? globally.  Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe to our Substack here   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Evgenia?s interview for Time here   Watch Vladimir?s documentary here   A profile on Vladimir by Meduza here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We wanted to let you all in on a well guarded secret: there are actually other podcasts out there that try to Order the Disorder. The team behind the New European magazine produce a podcast called ?The Two Matts?. We were really inspired by their recent treatment of how Germany is dealing with its neopopulism problem. In this bonus episode of Disorder, we present an excerpt from The Two Matts Jan 26th Show ?Germany Fighting Fascism? where Matt and Matt talk about the massive street protests against the AfD and the unique constitutional ways in which Germany can fight the rise of neopopulism.    Show Notes Links   Listen to the Two Matts here   Read Jason Pack?s recent article in The New European about how Bibi is just a run of the mill neopopulist here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we examine the regional roles played by Egypt and Iran and discuss British diplomacy towards those countries over the last decade or so. Iran and Egypt offer a fascinating study in contrasts ? in terms of their dealings with Israel and Hamas, as well as their posturing relative to the outside world.     So who better to help us understand these countries regional role than Alex?s former boss, Sir Geoffrey Adams, who served as British Ambassador both to Iran (2006-9) and to Egypt (2018-21). He served  also as Consul General in Jerusalem, the representative to the Palestinian Authority; as Foreign Office Director for the Middle East, and as DG Political ? the chief political advisor in the Foreign Office. He is now an honorary lecturer at the Institute for Iranian Studies at the University of St Andrews.    Sir Geoffrey relates his experiences of how diplomacy ?feels? in Tehran and Cairo and explains why medium powers like Egypt and Iran cannot be dictated to by disunited Western powers. Alex and Jason try to Order the Disorder by discussing Iran?s role as a disordering power, Egypt?s role as a mediating one, and why the medium powers in the region need to step up.    Twitter: @DisorderShow  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disorderpod/     Subscribe to our Substack: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links     Sir Geoffrey?s FCDO bio is available here His ?Reflections on the Arab Spring Ten Years On? can be accessed here    For more on the role of Iran as Disorderer please consult Ali Ansari in Ep4 here   For more on the regional role of Egypt and why Gaza is existential for Egypt according to Nathan Brown: pls consult in Ep16. The Struggle for Leadership of the Islamic World here   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Jason Pack and Alexandra Hall Hall open with their thoughts on the EU?s strengths and weaknesses ? concluding that the old adage, ?The EU is an economic colossus and a political pygmy?, is not too far off. To investigate how the EU leverages its trade clout, Alex interviews John Clarke ? a British national who worked for more than 30 years as a trade negotiator for the EU.?John tells us the tricks of the trade: how the US would steal trade dossiers during negotiations, how the psychology of negotiations works, and how the devil is in the details of free trade agreements.   He also describes how the EU?s trade treaties are like the different reciprocal drinking arrangements down at the pub. And of course, John gives Alex an insider?s perspective of ?what went wrong? over Brexit. In Ordering the Disorder, Jason and Alex discuss the lack of specific training that US and UK Ambassadors receive about negotiations, how the EU must navigate a fine line between the US and China, and how the rise of Neo-Populism in Europe could spell the end to EU?s trade negotiating prowess.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  For more visit here Read more about Europe?s Trade Ambitions here For more on the EU?s recent New Zealand trade deal visit here Find more on the tensions at play within EU read "Poland opposes extension of EU trade preferences for Ukraine? here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the Houthis attack ships in the Red Sea, Arthur Snell and Jason explore: 1) How this horrible crisis is actually an opportunity to create a coalition of orderers; 2) how Iran is not really able to use the Houthis as a proxy; 3) how one interpretation of the Houthi actions is as ?global disordering? rather than specifically supporting the Palestinians or a given outcome in Gaza; and 4) how there is an opportunity for a uniquely constructive role for Britain, drawing on its credibility and experience in protecting global shipping especially in a context where China refuses to engage.   Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    A good intro to Yemeni history from Time?s ?Made by History? can be found here.   What the US is doing here   What the UK is doing by Elisabeth Braw here   And what some think the US and UK should be doing here   Context around Anti-Semitism in Yemen here  Role of Saudi here   Listen to Arthur Snell?s podcast, Behind the Lines here   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Jason Pack and Alexandra Hall Hall disentangle the related concepts of corruption, illegality, embezzlement, and bribery. They discuss what happens when the laws of a given country allow legalized versions of ?corruption in plain sight? to flourish. They?ll look at two different case studies of this phenomenon: Britain and Libya. First, Alex talks to journalist and author Sam Bright about the unique type of ?pay for access? corruption that has infiltrated the British establishment. They?ll analyse how wealthy donors can buy meetings with senior officials within the Conservative Party, the implications of the UK?s failed Golden Visa Programme and how it has allowed oligarchs to embed themselves into the UK?s political and economic life, and how the British media?s cosy relationships with cabinet ministers leads to a lack of accountability and transparency.  Later in the episode, Jason talks to Husni Bey Husni, Libya?s most famous and successful entrepreneur and businessman. They?ll unpack how subsidies in Libya encourage corruption and pervert incentive structures and international markets. They dwell on the policy implications of these perversions and Husni argues that a libertarian approach is his personal solution to help Order the Disorder.   Finally, Jason and Alex discuss how to deter corruption in British politics, how the Libyans have perfected the Miss Manner?s Guide to Rigorously Correct Kleptocracy works, how the libertarian approach might (and might not) work, how regulations and cultural norms are needed, and how removing perverse incentive structures is essential as humans will always do whatever benefits them if they can get away with it.  Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Get Sam Bright?s books Fortress London: The definitive book about Levelling Up and why it matters here And Bullingdon Club Britain: The Ransacking of a Nation here   Get Jason's book Libya and The Global Enduring Disorder here (And read about the Miss Manner?s Guide to Rigorously Correct Kleptocracy in Chapter 4)  Read more about Kleptocracy here   Read more about Husni here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Jason Pack is joined by Arthur Snell, and they speak to Professor Naho Mirumachi. Naho is a specialist on the politics of the environment. She is particularly interested in ?the wars that were not fought? over water usage. The trio discuss: what lessons can be learnt from international governance of water usage and other related collective action challenges, will there actually be ?Water Wars? in the future, and the challenges of international coordination over the usage of water.  Expanding outwards from historical and contemporary examples of water conflict and water sharing in the Nile Basin and Mekong Delta, the hosts ask Naho: given climate change and aridification, will there be enough fresh water to sustain a world population of 10 billion humans for the long term future?   In the Ordering the Disorder segment, the trio conclude that major states just tend not to fight over water. Or at least they haven?t as of yet. In fact, water diplomacy has been surprisingly successful over the past few decades and may point to certain lessons concerning how to incentivize optimal compromises in other fields like tax, security, or borders.   Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Get Naho?s book?Water: A Critical Introduction?(Wiley) here   Read NAHO?s writing at Valuing water: a difficult but crucial step towards greater water justice here   Listen to Arthur Snell?s podcast, Behind the Lines, here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the 1st of January 2024, BRICS (an international forum of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa), are welcoming in new members to form BRICS+. In this episode, Alex Hall Hall talks with Anjali Bhatt about what the bloc aims to achieve and what the addition of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Egypt, and the UAE might entail for the organization. They?ll also discuss Argentina?s new disruptive leader, why he might withdraw from BRICS+, and whether the expansion could mean the strengthening of disordering powers (like China).    In the Ordering the Disorder segment, Jason and Alex discuss whether the West should take BRICS+ seriously as a global force, what some of their ideas might mean for global economics, and whether the institution of BRICS+ will function more as an ordering force or more as a disordering one.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  No One Knows What BRICS Expansion Means by Anjali Bhatt here   And for a broader overview of BRICS, its history, and role in the world, pls consult here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our Christmas special, Jason Pack and Alex Hall Hall look back at the first year of the disorder pod, and forecast a bit about the next. They discuss 2024 as a record-breaking year of global elections, answer some listeners? questions about topics like Central Asia, Gaza, Western hypocrisy, and Palestinian History.    They also share a bit about themselves, their families? holiday menus, and their escape routes. Like, who knew that Alex likes doing puzzles so much and that Jason is a super fan of the Netflix show Fauda.  During the Ordering the Disorder Segment, they discuss why we urgently need to get the Christmas spirit back into diplomacy.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  At the start and end of the podcast, we heard some lovely Xmas music from Evoke, a London-based vocal ensemble founded and directed by Victoria Ely. Full credits:  Pat-a-pan: traditional Burgundian carol, arranged by David Conte.  Jingle Bells: arranged by Audrey Snyder  Music performed by Evoke, directed by Victoria Ely  Facebook: www.facebook.com/evokemusicuk  Youtube: www.youtube.com/@evoke1439  Website: www.evokemusic.org/   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Alex and Jason investigate if major Islamic nations can exercise global leadership over the Israel-Palestine conflict and propose implementable solutions. They also examine the leverage that Arab Gulf States now have over the West, in general, and Britian, in specific. Jason talks to James M. Dorsey, host of the Turbulent World podcast, to investigate three of the principal countries battling simultaneously for leadership of the Islamic World and to set the direction of ?moderate? Islam in the 21st century: the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Indonesia.     Zooming in on how these dynamics bear upon the diplomacy surrounding the Gaza conflict, Jason speaks with Nathan Brown; a keen observer of Palestinian politics over the last six decades. They explore how the Palestinian question has traditionally been connected to both struggles over Muslim identity and leadership of the Islamic world. They analyse how the current struggle for Islamic Leadership could actually provide opportunities to forge solutions to the Israel-Gaza conflict.  At the end of the show, Jason and Alex return to the question of what it means that the UK has become ever more reliant on money from the Gulf States, and whether that?s taken away any leverage the West may have over these countries in the current conflict.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/struggle-for-global-leadership     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Listen to James M. Dorsey?s podcast, The Turbulent World here   Nathan?s first gloomy premonition, ?There Might Be No Day After in Gaza here   And his ?Arab Peace Initiative II: How Arab Leadership Could Design a Peace Plan in Israel and Palestine? here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week?s episode, Jason and Alex are joined by Kurt Volker, former US Ambassador to NATO and former US?s Special Representative to Ukraine. The wide-ranging discussion tries to unpick NATO?s role in our increasingly disordered world. They also examine what makes NATO successful where the UN and other international organizations falter. They discuss both the 2023 NATO summit in Lithuania and the 2023 Tbilisi International Conference, entitled ?Defeating Putinism.? They also look forward to next year?s supremely important NATO summit in Washington with bated breath. That moment not only marks 75 years since NATO?s creation, but it ?should be? the moment that NATO offers Ukraine concrete steps to membership. Plus: they look at the late Senator John McCain?s legacy and the US?s role in NATO, as the momentous 2024 election approaches.     Alex and Jason Order the Disorder by postulating why Ukraine needs to join NATO as soon as possible ? even if the war with Russia is still ongoing.    Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Previous episode on NATO here   Read Kurt Volker?s NATO assessments here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode, Jason discusses his mom?s Thanksgiving stuffing recipe as he is joined by our roving correspondent ? David Patrikarakos ? who missed Turkey Day in London choosing to go to Ukraine and Gaza instead. The pair ?drone? on about the use of Iranian Shahid drones in both conflicts, the similarities and differences in the moral and military calculus in Ukraine as opposed to Gaza, and how today?s easy access to technology means traditionally lesser military powers can achieve a modicum of leveling up with their more 1st world opponents. The pair also try to step away from the current news cycle to debunk some historical misconceptions about both conflicts.    In the Ordering the Disorder segment, the discuss the role of historical narratives and mythmaking, the West?s need to hold the line in the Ukraine, and why there are no easy solutions for the day after the War in Gaza.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    More on David?s recent trip to Ukraine here    And his thoughts on the chances of a regional Middle Eastern escalation here   And back to Jason?s solutions, ?The Road to Middle East Peace Runs Through Doha? here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Disinformation and culture wars are an existential problem for democracies. They foster negative feedback loops: whereby internal divisions inside democracies make us more vulnerable to hostile external actors spewing misinformation, who then exploit those divisions to create more vulnerability to misinformation, culminating in culture wars. These kind of negative feedback loops are another symptom of our era of Global Enduring Disorder.   In this week?s episode, Alex and Jason are joined by Laura Thornton, Senior Vice President for democracy at GMF. They discuss how social media algorithms promote disinformation, culture wars, and a rise in contempt for experts. In the Ordering the Disorder section, they?ll talk about the fight for neutral facts and how we could rethink our electoral systems to strengthen our democracies in the UK and US.   Twitter: @DisorderShow   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/unregulated-cyberspace   Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn     Show Notes Links    Read Brian Klaas? article on Trump and Mark Milley here   For more on Laura Thornton?s work visit here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Climate change is the perfect example of what happens on a pressing global challenge when no one leads, or even takes responsibility, for a collective action problem ? nothing happens, the crisis builds until it becomes seemingly unmanageable/unfixable. Without strong collective action and tough compromises, climate change will get more and more geopolitically intractable making life saving compromises even harder.  In this episode, Fiona Harvey explores the importance coordination mechanisms such as COP summits, while Arthur Snell explores the vulnerability of developing island states, the potential next climate great battleground -- the Arctic -- and the role medium powers such as the UK could play in coordinating climate policy.   Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For more from Fiona Harvey, visit here    Listen to Arthur Snell?s podcast, Behind The Lines, here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a special Thanksgiving bonus episode of the podcast, Jason is joined by Alessandro Politi, the Director of the NATO Defense College Foundation in Rome. They discuss: Alessandro?s Axis lineage, what role if any NATO has in the Middle East, what Europe?s unique role should be in the Israel-Hamas war (potentially as a counterbalance to America), how global affairs look from Taiwan (where Alessandro just was), and whether the Ukraine-Russia and Israel-Gaza Wars might act as a detonator for larger US and China tensions.  Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Alessandro?s writing on China here     More on the NATO Defense College Foundation can be found here     Listen to Jason appearing alongside Gershon Baskin discussing hostage negotiations and scenarios for Post-War Gaza here    For more on what Europe is proposing in the Middle East, read ?Germany suggests UN take control in Gaza after Israel-Hamas war ends? here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week?s episode, Alex and Jason are joined by former US congressman Tom Malinowski (D-NJ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Malinowski. In addition to talking about why Tom ziplined to his wedding, they discuss: how to end the war in Ukraine, smear campaigns in American elections, Russian misinformation, why democracy seems to be on the back foot globally, how American and British Neo-populism is connected to the rise of authoritarianism abroad, and why the US and UK experience so many structural inefficiencies when building railroads and highways.  Twitter: @DisorderShow    Read Tom?s thoughts about how to end the war in Ukraine, here: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/08/18/how-to-end-ukraine-war-00111752    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  For more on Tom, visit https://twitter.com/Malinowski   Subscribe to the Disorder Show Monthly Newsletter here     Read Jason?s recent writing, ?The Road to Middle East Peace Runs Through Doha? here For all who are interested in 'the definitive' reading of how The Global Enduring Disorder (including the divisiveness and ineffectiveness of Neopopulism) caused the war in Gaza listen to Yuval Noah Harari on Sam Harris?s Making Sense here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Diplomacy is a game, and geopolitics is a psychological sport. Though we may root for the ?democratic good guys?, it is often the disordering ?autocratic bad guys? that achieve their aims through effective use of psychological tactics like bluffing and intimidation.    In this episode, we meet Jonathan Powell, Tony Blair?s former Chief of Staff, who helped negotiate landmark treaties like the Good Friday Agreement. He tells us how our leaders could use various skills to get to mutually beneficial agreements. We?ll also meet Kenneth Dekleva, a former US diplomat and a Professor of Psychiatry, who will present certain ways we can psychologically outfox disorderers like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Jonathan Powell?s Majestic work on the Negotiations in Northern Ireland is here Get Kenneth Dekleva?s latest books. The Last Violinist here  Read a recent article by Kenneth here  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Alex Hall Hall talks to Tom Fletcher, the former British Ambassador to Lebanon. Tom and Alex discuss the Palestinian refugee and surrounding Arab states narratives as an entry point to examine whether there?s any risk of the war spreading. They delve deeper into: the rationale for humanitarian de-escalation, the interests and motives of players like Lebanon, Hezbollah and Iran, and what international actors like the UK, the US and the UN need to be doing to stabilize the situation, and how they can be working towards longer term solutions.    Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com   Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Tom Fletcher?s writing around this issue at here    You can listen to Jason?s take on the regional context on the PREVAIL podcast here     You can read current Alex?s writing around this issue here   Read, As dark as things seem, the war in Gaza could end up restarting the peace process here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the Israeli-Hamas war enters a new phase, Alex and Jason discuss how hard it is to speak publicly and diplomatically about an issue that?s become so partisan and so emotive. Plus: the pair talk about Jason?s idea for interim post-war governance of Gaza involving a Qatari-Saudi-Egyptian-Emirati condominium which would need to be mediated by American and British diplomats. Although only a medium-term solution, Jason believes it could give key regional players a stake in forging peace in the region. Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com   Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Jason?s Article, ?Qatar is the key to peace in postwar Gaza? here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Across the world, there are vast swathes of the planet (especially our oceans and atmosphere) that have been left without governance, and into that space have stepped terrorist groups, disordering non-state actors, drug cartels, and polluting and exploitative corporations. So how can global institutions help bring a semblance of order back to these places ?  In this episode, Sam Quinones will help us look at how rogue actors have helped to perpetuate disorder across the world ? for example, in Mexico where drug cartels turn the absence of governance into proift. Harold A. Trinkunas talks to us about how ungoverned spaces in Venezula and other failed States came to be and what their existence says about our era of disorder. In the conclusion, Alex and Jason ?Order the Disorder? propose how communities and interested institution can mitigate the disordering impact of spaces that are without global governance.    Twitter: @DisorderShow   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Get Harold?s co-authored book, Ungoverned Spaces: Alternatives to state authority in an era of softened sovereignty here    For more on Sam Quinones, visit here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From London to Miami, illicit cash has been flowing through the West?s financial systems. Coordination failures have allowed disruptors like Russia to prop up a transnational kleptocracy ? while groups like the UN, IMF and NATO are ill-equipped to deal with this problem, especially as key players in Britain and America, actively encourage the financial deregulation on which the kleptocrats thrive.  In this episode we look at the origins of globalized finance and how illicit money flows cause global disorder by empowering thieves and increasing inequality, and what can be done to stop the spread of dirty cash. Peter Geoghegan explains how illicit money influences British politics. Tena Prelec examines the role of Eastern Europe and sketches how the answer out of our current mess is to advocate for radical transparency. In the Ordering the Disorder segment we showcase why we should focus on ordering our own house first rather than focusing on the sins of our systemic competitors.  Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For more on Peter Geoghegan is here   For more on Tena Prelec, visit here More on this kleptocracy and tax havens can be found here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On Saturday October the 7th the world awoke to the most horrific, chaotic, and game changing Arab-Israeli war in 50 years. But despite how tragic the news was, it wasn?t at all surprising. Internal divisions and partisan dysfunction inside previously functioning democracies (like Israel) have left previously secure and united societies, divided and open to their enemies. This has been an open invitation to those who wish to actively disorder global affairs.  In this bonus episode, Jason Pack and David Patrikarakos discuss how, in our era of disorder, conflicts in one part of the world create immediate disordering reactions elsewhere. They?ll also talk about David?s time in Gaza, Jason?s conversations with anti-Semitic cab drivers in Lebanon and the West Bank, and how the internet radicalizes reporting on this conflict. Jason and David disagree agreeably about whether Hamas has already won this war. Finally, they?ll try to suggest ways out of this conflict, as they try to Order the Disorder.  Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website:   https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  Subscribe to the Disorder Show Monthly Newsletter here   For depth on the historical context of the War: listen to Jason on Arthur Snell?s Behind the Lines here   Brett Stevens NYT Op-ed on potential solutions here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nation states no longer work effectively in tandem. Gone are the days of hegemonic US power directly ordering the allies. Furthermore, groups like the UN are ineffective, with disruptors often calling the shots. However, NATO stands apart as an example of how countries can work together successfully and how a global institution can remain largely uncontroversial, while doing serious coordinating work to solve real world problems.    In this episode our hosts and guests relate their perspectives about what NATO stands for, its strengths and limitations, and the threats it faces. Former NATO Deputy Sec General, Jamie Shea tells about how the organisation worked in the Balkans and Afghanistan, while Kori Schake mulls over the role of the US as NATO?s hegemonic leader. Timothy Garton Ash comments on distinctions between NATO and the EU especially as pertains to values like liberty. Finally, Charles Kupchan examines why Russia chooses to actively disorder. Charles and Jason disagree agreeable on China?s role as an orderer vs. disorderer.     Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For more on Kori Schake, visit here   For more on Jamie Shea, visit here    Get Timothy Garton Ash?s book, Homelands here   For more on Charles Kupchan, visit here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Migration has become one of the most emotive political topics. Fears surrounding the topic are essential to the rise of Neo-Populism. All the while, migration is increasing; over the past decade over 50 million more people have been moving internationally than in previous decades. So how does migration work (or not work) in our era of global disorder? What problems does it solve and what problems does it create? Can disordered migration be curbed and the benefits of ?orderly? migration achieved in a more regulated manner? Or do we have a humanitarian imperative to preserve even disorderly migration?    In this episode, Parag Khanna discusses how creating a transparent and fair global market for migrants could help optimize the economics behind migration. Lawrence Huang analyses how the current global management of migration operates and why the way Neo-Populists constant diatribes about ?uncontrolled migration? are harming any real attempts to order the space. In the ?Ordering the Disorder? segment, Alex and Jason debate what international coordination mechanisms are needed to deal with mass migration and whether coherent collective action could ever emerge to forge implementable solutions.    Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/climate-change-geopolitics     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Link  Subscribe to the Disorder Show Monthly Newsletter here    Get Parag Khanna?s book ?Move: Where People Are going For A better future? here   For more on Lawrence Huang?s work visit here Read Alex's piece on migration for the Byline Times here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It has long been held that the primary disorderers on the global stage are China and Russia. Let?s not forget, though, that medium powers, such as Iran, are also able to majorly disorder geopolitics. Meanwhile, imploded post-conflict countries like Libya are capable of injecting serious financial and jihadi contagion into neighbouring states and fuelling the Global Enduring Disorder.    In this episode, we discuss how the tooth and nail struggle for global leadership leads some states to play the role of disorderers. We also examine how failures to coordinate at the international level exacerbate problems on the ground. In specific, we break down how Iran promotes global disorder as a strategy to increase its influence (via an interview with Ali Ansari) and how Libya?s profound domestic disorder infects the global system (through talking to Stephanie Williams).      Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/struggle-for-global-leadership     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn  Show Notes  Subscribe to the Disorder Show Monthly Newsletter here  For more on Ali Ansari, visit here    For more from Stephanie Williams, visit here  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Over the past few decades leaders like Trump, Orban, and Bolsonaro have ridden a wave of popular outrage to rise to power. But what came first: the Neo-Populists or the era of Global Enduring Disorder?    In this episode we chart the rise of the Neo-Populists, their impact on global order, and what we can do to stop them. Sean Wilentz explains the difference between real populism (like Bernie Sanders) and ?faux? or neo-populists (like Trump), while Anne Applebaum takes us through the missed opportunities and co-ordination failures of the post-Cold War years.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/neo-populism    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Note Links    For more from Anne Applebaum here      For more on Sean Wilentz here   For more on Jonathan Winer here   For more on Jamie Shea here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Although the birth of the internet was an interplay between American defense contractors and American tech firms, the US government actively chose to not regulate the commercial aspects of what it had birthed.     From disinformation to cyber warfare, how can we better control the internet and stop it from reinforcing the Global Enduring Disorder? In this episode, former FBI Agent Asha Rangappa helps us understand what makes these new technologies so disruptive and how the West?s adversaries understand the politics of cyberspace. War Correspondent David Patrikarakos tells us about the physical impact of these new technologies on ongoing conflicts. Both conclude that our leaders have been naïve about the fact that for more than a decade we have been facing an existential multi-front cyber-war.     Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/unregulated-cyberspace    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Note Links    For more from Asha Rangappa, subscribe to her email newsletter, The Freedom Academy here. She is also co-host of the podcast, It?s Complicated, with Renato Mariotti which you can find here.   Get David Patrikarakos? book, War in 140 Characters: How Social Media Is Reshaping Conflict in the Twenty-First Century here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are living through an unprecedented era. International institutions like the UN are incapable of tackling global challenges, disordering powers like China and Russia are actively promoting chaos rather than order, and democratic countries are not effectively coordinating on transnational threats. The result? An era of Global Enduring Disorder has swept the world. We see it in the rise and fall of Trump, Bolsonaro, and Boris, inaction on climate change, and never-ending civil wars in Yemen, Ukraine, Syria, and Libya.    In this episode, Jason Pack and Alexandra Hall Hall share their personal journeys and walk us through the fundamental features of our era of Disorder. We hear from esteemed historian Timothy Garton Ash, who will chart how the West has frayed, while author and podcaster Brian Klaas will tell us why democracies frequently pick the wrong leaders?especially in times of crisis.    Disorder is produced by George McDonagh. Theme music is ?These Spreadsheets Make Me Sick??by?Glass Boy. Other music is provided by Glass Boy and Luca La Morgia.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Note Links  Subscribe to the Disorder Show Monthly Newsletter here     For more from Brian Klaas, subscribe to his substack here   Get Timothy Garton Ash?s book, Homelands here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world?s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We?re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.     The Disorder podcast teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, NATO Foundation Senior Analyst, and Alexandra Hall Hall, a former British Ambassador, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today?s global issues. At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe?s most pressing challenges aka, ?Ordering the Disorder?.    Twitter:  @DisorderShow    Website:  https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Newsletter: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/newsletters  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices